Opinions on rig options wanted

[KF7ORO]

I'm pretty new to ham radio and want to have a good set up for trail comms. Right now I've got an Icom dual band HT. I was thinking about just putting a mag mount antenna on the roof for it. If anyone else has done that, were you happy with the performance? I'm guessing more power would be nice sometimes but if it works pretty good, this is my cheapest option.

I've got two other options I'm thinking about and wanted to get some opinions on what people like for trail rides.

1. Yaesu FT-2900 - 2 meters seems to be all I really need and this rig has a good price and lots of power.

2. Next option is a top of the line Kenwood or Yaesu dual bander with APRS. This is a huge step up in cost. Is it worth it to have 440 & APRS?

Thanks for the help everyone.

Brian, KF7ORO

[K7NNT]

First off, Welcome to the group!
Is it worth it to have 440 & APRS?
I say yes. But it depends on how serious you are about the hobby.... if you stick with ham radio you will for sure end up with 440 / APRS eventually. However just getting started the 2900 is a fine choice. I know a guy who just got his ticket to have a rig in his Jeep. And that is as far as it went. No other interest. So a basic 2m was best for him. I would say start slow, I did. The 2900 will make a great back rig when and if you decide to upgrade radios. And BTW, you cant have too many radios. :)

All the best!

[K7VZ]

I think it's worth it to not only have a dual band like the Yaesu FT-7900, but to have a dual receive dual band like the FT-8800. Being able to listen to a repeater at the same time as simplex is worth it to me. Or scan a set of frequencies on one side while you are talking on the other. I've been out multiple times where I can hear people miss traffic on another frequency while they are on a single receive radio. Just buy one of each from all the manufacturers. It'll be easier to start off that way, because you are going to end up there eventually. haha.

[N5MUD]

Welcome to the group Brian!

I had the exact same questions as you when I started. My first radio was a Yaesu FT-2800 (predecessor to the 2900). It's a great radio (the 2900 even better), rugged, quiet, powerful, pretty much indestructible. I liked it so well that I bought a second one for my base station, and I still have them both. The best thing about a mobile radio versus your HT as a trail radio is the power - 75 watts in the 2900 versus 5 watts in the HT. 5 watts is great if all you want to do is talk among your trail group, but 15X the power is mo' betta when you want/need to talk back to base camp or the nearest town/repeater.

But I did later want to upgrade my mobile radio with a dual-band and APRS, so I bought a Kenwood TM-D710A. I love having APRS; now my family can track me in real time when I'm away on a 4WD trip, and it makes long road trips much more interesting and contacts easier.

My take on the 440 band is a little different than Randy's though - I live out in a rural part of my county and the 440 repeaters are few and far between, with no activity on them (when I am in range), so it is pretty useless to me. But if you live in a city where there are 440 repeaters and action I'm sure it would be nice. One good thing about 440 is that if you are in deep canyon country, 440 will do a much better job than 2M of bouncing and getting out of the canyon. Useful if you're in a large group spread out in different canyons or trails.

I agree with both Randy and Virgil that you will eventually accumulate more radios. :o The good thing is that even a single-band 2M radio will always be useful for something - in a second car, as a back-up, at your base station, etc., so your money is not necessarily wasted to buy a simple radio now and upgrade later. But if your budget will allow, I would go ahead and buy a good dual-band radio for a mobile now. If you want a plug-and-play APRS solution, you are pretty limited to either the Yaesu FTM-350R or the Kenwood TM-D710A at the present moment. If you want to tinker and build your own, you can make almost any 2M radio into an APRS rig for less though.

[KF7ORO]

Thanks for all the help. I went by the AES store in town today and I'm pretty proud of what I came up with for now.

I have a CB setup right now so they helped me find an MFJ dual-band antenna that will fit in the 3/8 x 24 mount I've already got. They also hooked me up with some adapters so I can just unhook the coax from my CB and plug in my HT for now. When I get a mobile radio, I can just add a power cord for the ham rig and replace the CB. I'll still be able to swap the CB back in easy if I really need to. Just swap the mounting brackets and plug it in.

One other thing that convinced me to go with the HT setup at least temporarily. They just passed a new law here, mainly aimed at cell phones but it also outlaws use of microphones with anything more than a PTT button while driving. I was able to get a speaker mic for the HT that only has a PTT button so I can legally talk with that. Anyone have any idea what options I'll have with a mobile rig? I haven't seen anything with a PTT-only microphone. That may influence my decision I guess.

One other thing I found out about the FT-2900. It has a code trainer. I'm working on learning morse so that would be a lot better than listening to crappy morning shows on the way to work. Anyone ever use that feature? Is it really any good?

[KF7ORO]

I got my antenna on this morning and tried to tune it. My SWR is 2.1 on 144 MHz and 1.3 on 148 MHZ so it looks like it's a little short but there's no way to make it longer. Is it made this way so it covers 440 pretty well too? My meter only works up to 150 MHz so I can't really check that.

I remember when I was tuning the CB antenna I had to adjust it so it was about as long as possible. Probably because of where I have it mounted.

Anyway, here's the antenna I got. http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-1414 Anyone have any tips for how to make it longer if I need to?
1049

[N5MUD]

Anyone have any tips for how to make it longer if I need to?

You could put a spring under it Brian, if that doesn't make it so flexible that it hits your truck.

[WB7X]

The spring is a good plan, also can use a stud/threaded rod and coupling usually available at any hardware store.

If you are using a mag mount, you might try a jumper from the base to a "good" ground and see what happens.

[KF7ORO]

Thanks Lee. I'll try a spring. The antenna's a stainless whip and it's pretty flexible so maybe it'll flex before the spring does and not beat the truck up too bad.

I'm pretty sure my ground is good. I did read that insufficient counterpoise can cause the same symptoms as a short antenna so I checked between the outside of the PL-259 at the antenna (mounted to the body) and the frame, I've got less than an ohm of resistance. Does that mean my ground is good or is there another way I should check it?

[N5MUD]

I'm pretty sure my ground is good. I did read that insufficient counterpoise can cause the same symptoms as a short antenna so I checked between the outside of the PL-259 at the antenna (mounted to the body) and the frame, I've got less than an ohm of resistance. Does that mean my ground is good or is there another way I should check it?

Your electrical ground is probably good, but that is a different thing than ground plane (sometimes called counterpoise). Some antennas, notably 5/8-wave and 1/4-wave for 2M, require a good ground plane to radiate effectively. Lack of ground plane will make it difficult or impossible to tune up with acceptable SWR, usually this just shows up as high SWR. Mobile antennas that require a good ground plane do best mounted on the roof or the fenders of the truck. Sometimes, a 5/8 or 1/4-wave antenna just will not tune up mounted on a bumper, spare tire, or hinge mount. In that case, a 1/2 wave antenna is a better choice because they don't require much if any ground plane.

Since your antenna is tuning up with a "dip" of 1.3 on the upper edge of the band, my conclusion would be the same as your original one - that the antenna is a little short, but that the ground plane is plenty good for that antenna and mounting location.

[KF7ORO]

Thanks again Lee. That makes me feel better. I'll try the spring when I can get a chance to pick one up next week.

[KF7ORO]

Well, I went by the local AES and they recommended a longer whip instead of the spring so I got that instead. Only problem was when I went to try it out my SWR was dog balls (infinity). I seem to have broken my coax center conductor messing around with it too much. To make it worse, it wasn't long enough to just cut and put a new connector on it. So another trip to the store and I got some more coax and connectors and couldn't resist a radio to go on the end of it. After tons of research and still not being too sure of what to get, I picked up a Yaesu FT-7900R. Hopefully I'll get everything installed this weekend but a little trip to Utah may get in the way. I'll guess I'll have to suffer with the HT if it does.

[K7NNT]

Awesome! Thanks for the update. Lets see some pics or you install once you get it done.

[KF7ORO]

Well, I just got the install done and ops checked it. It seems to work great! Here are some pics.

I've had a CB installed for a while be rarely used it. I still wanted to be able to have it in there for the occasional trail run where everyone only has CBs. I'll be able to convert quickly by swapping the radio and antenna so this fits my needs pretty well. Of course the 7900 will be there normally. Here's what I started with...
http://www.4x4ham.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1115&d=1312057026

The antenna mount is homemade out of some scrap 2x2 tube and it has a 3/8x24 connector. I can use it for either my CB or Ham antenna. Someday, hopefully, I'll get an HF/VHF/UHF rig and I can use a hamstick in there too. Maybe then I'll put a hole in the roof for a dual-band antenna.
http://www.4x4ham.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1119&d=1312057026

I modified my roof bracket a little so the screws are permanently attached and I can just take the nuts off to swap radio mounting brackets. I also left my CB power leads there so I can swap radios.
http://www.4x4ham.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1116&d=1312057026

Here's the new Yaesu FT-7900 in place. I was a little worried about being able to hear the top firing speaker but it works just fine. I like it being up high just in case I get water inside (not that we have much of that here in Vegas).
http://www.4x4ham.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1118&d=1312057026

Even though the antenna mounting location isn't really optimal, it does allow me to tuck it into the roof rack so I can get it in my garage. A roof mounted antenna wouldn't work too well for me unless it folded down really flat. Turns out after replacing the coax I didn't really need to use the longer whip I bought for the MFJ-1414. The SWR is <2:1 across the whole FM part of both bands so I'm just going to be happy with that.
http://www.4x4ham.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1117&d=1312057026

Thanks for the help everyone and let me know what you think.

Brian, KF7ORO

[WB7X]

Looks great. How do you see the face?

I was just in LV and didn't see any water. :)

[KF7ORO]

I can see it pretty well actually. I do have it tilted down a little which is hard to see in the pics. Not much water here but I try to get out of town once in a while. :)

[K7NNT]

How did you make the roof mount to mount the radio to? That is pretty slick.

[AC0VH]

How did you make the roof mount to mount the radio to? That is pretty slick.
If the FJ Cruiser is anything like my old truck, for some reason Toyota uses 3 very stout 6mm bolts to hold the mirror to the roof. I had my radio mounted just like for a long time, but ended up moving the body because it's /really/ bouncy up there on the arm.

http://www.armbrusterweb.com/public/webshots/IMG_0458.JPG

[KF7ORO]

The FJ only has a couple ~3 mm screws holding the mirror on but right above where those go into the roof, it has two more holes that are the perfect size for a 1/4" nutsert. I put two of those in and along with the mirror screws it's pretty solid. The mount itself is just 1/8" aluminum bent to follow the roofline. I did have some bounce with the CB on there but with the 7900 I don't seem to have much bounce at all. I guess it's a little lighter.

[WB7X]

I can see it pretty well actually. I do have it tilted down a little which is hard to see in the pics. Not much water here but I try to get out of town once in a while. :)

I was actually visiting the garden spot of Mercury. No water there either.

Nice drive out of LV though. Saw a UAV launch out of Indian Springs/Creech.

[K7NNT]

Thanks for the mounting info. I will have to see what I can do with mine.