Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Offroad VHF 2m simplex frequency list

  1. #1
    4x4 Ham Member HenryJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Oregon, USA
    Posts
    26

    Offroad VHF 2m simplex frequency list

    I did a quick search and did not find anything here.
    A dozen years ago now a group of us over on 4WDTrips.net agreed upon a set of offroad frequencies:

    4WD1 146.430
    4WD2 146.460
    4WD3 146.490
    4WD4 146.580
    4WD5 147.420
    4WD6 147.450
    4WD7 147.480
    4WD8 147.540
    4WD9 147.570

    I stay with 4WD2 most of the time, if it is busy I will drop to 4WD4. These do not interfere with most band plans as far as I know. We can usually find a channel that works where ever we explore.
    I will program local repeaters too, but most of the time it is just simplex chatter we rely upon. I am lousy about programming frequencies at the radio. Laptop and software for me. If it isn't programmed before I leave, it is not likely I will be talking or listening on that channel.

    Has anyone else developed a band plan for offroad?

    For those that are not hams we use FRS 1-0. Those FRS channels are usually pretty crowded, sometimes. It usually takes some coordination to find a free frequency that works for everyone. Not nearly as organized or reliable.
    "Speed is just a matter of Money - How fast do YOU want to go?"-mechanic from Mad Max-
    If at first you don't succeed - Don't take up Skydiving!
    - KE7CSK

  2. #2
    4x4 Ham Member Supporting Member N7IYT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Peoria, AZ
    Posts
    1,103
    Here in Arizona we do most of our trail communications on 147.52. A couple of other Arizona groups use 146.46.
    Offroad and on the air.

  3. #3
    4x4 Ham Member AC0VH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Loveland, CO
    Posts
    558
    Also keep in mind that not every location has the same channel spacing. In Colorado we use 15KHz spacing but Utah does 20KHz, thus we figured out that there were four overlapping between the two typical band plans. RS stands for Rising Sun.

    RS#1--146.460
    RS#2--146.580
    RS#3--147.420
    RS#4--147.540

  4. #4
    4x4 Ham Member HenryJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Oregon, USA
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by AC0VH View Post
    Also keep in mind that not every location has the same channel spacing. In Colorado we use 15KHz spacing but Utah does 20KHz...

    RS#1--146.460
    RS#2--146.580
    RS#3--147.420
    RS#4--147.540
    Yup, Oregon is 20khz too , if I am not mistaken. I think CA was 15 Khz?
    It looks like 146.460 (4WD2-RS#1-AZothers) is popular thus far.
    "Speed is just a matter of Money - How fast do YOU want to go?"-mechanic from Mad Max-
    If at first you don't succeed - Don't take up Skydiving!
    - KE7CSK

  5. #5
    Administrator Supporting Member K7VZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    3,130
    AZ uses 20khz spacing. http://www.azfreqcoord.org/bp/144bp.html

    As Richard mentioned, we've been using 147.52Mhz since at least 2007 in AZ. I think it came from being 1Mhz above the 146.52 national calling frequency.
    Virgil - K7VZ
    Offroad and on the air.

  6. #6
    4x4 Ham Member Supporting Member KI6MLU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by HenryJ View Post
    I did a quick search and did not find anything here.
    A dozen years ago now a group of us over on 4WDTrips.net agreed upon a set of offroad frequencies:

    4WD1 146.430
    4WD2 146.460
    4WD3 146.490
    4WD4 146.580
    4WD5 147.420
    4WD6 147.450
    4WD7 147.480
    4WD8 147.540
    4WD9 147.570

    I stay with 4WD2 most of the time, if it is busy I will drop to 4WD4. These do not interfere with most band plans as far as I know. We can usually find a channel that works where ever we explore.
    I will program local repeaters too, but most of the time it is just simplex chatter we rely upon. I am lousy about programming frequencies at the radio. Laptop and software for me. If it isn't programmed before I leave, it is not likely I will be talking or listening on that channel.

    Has anyone else developed a band plan for offroad?

    For those that are not hams we use FRS 1-0. Those FRS channels are usually pretty crowded, sometimes. It usually takes some coordination to find a free frequency that works for everyone. Not nearly as organized or reliable.
    Quote Originally Posted by AC0VH View Post
    Also keep in mind that not every location has the same channel spacing. In Colorado we use 15KHz spacing but Utah does 20KHz, thus we figured out that there were four overlapping between the two typical band plans. RS stands for Rising Sun.

    RS#1--146.460
    RS#2--146.580
    RS#3--147.420
    RS#4--147.540
    Here are some references:
    AZ (20 kHz spacing) http://www.azfreqcoord.org/bp/144bp.html
    Southern CA (15 kHz spacing) http://www.tasma.org/bandplan.pdf
    Northern CA (15 kHz spacing) http://www.narcc.org/
    CO (15 kHz spacing) http://www.ccarc.net/images/CCARC_FUP_144MHz_revB.pdf
    Southern NV (20 kHz spacing) http://www.snrc.us/bandplan.htm
    OR (20 kHz spacing) http://www.orrc.org/BandPlan.aspx?Plan=200
    UT (20 kHz spacing) http://utahvhfs.org/bandplan1.html
    WA (20 kHz spacing) https://www.wwara.org/Band_Plans_2004_06_03.pdf
    I could not find any websites with the band plans for Idaho, Montana or Wyoming.

    Based on my research, the only 2m simplex frequencies that work everywhere in the western USA regardless of 15 kHz or 20 kHz spacing are:
    146.520 (The National Calling Frequency) and,
    147.480


    Some comments about the other suggested simplex frequencies:
    146.430 (15 kHz spacing) Only used for simplex in the Colorado bandplan; in CA, this is reserved for ATV voice; does not fit other regions' 20 kHz spacing
    146.460 (both 15 kHz and 20 kHz spacing) Note that the AZ and CA bandplans have designated this frequency for remote base operations; OK in other regions
    146.490 (15 kHz spacing) Only used for simplex in the Colorado bandplan; in CA, this is a repeater input; does not fit other regions' 20 kHz spacing
    146.580 (both 15 kHz and 20 kHz spacing) Note that the AZ bandplan has designated this frequency for IRLP/Echolink simplex operations and NorCAL has designated this for digital operations; OK in other regions
    147.420 (20 kHz spacing) In AZ, this is reserved for digital transmissions; this does not match the 15 kHz spacing used in CA or CO; OK in other regions
    147.450 (15 kHz spacing) Only used for simplex in the Colorado bandplan; in CA, this is a repeater output; does not fit other regions' 20 kHz spacing
    147.520 (20 kHz spacing) Does not match the 15 kHz spacing used in CA and CO; OK in other regions
    147.540 (both 15 kHz and 20 kHz spacing) In CA, this is reserved for digital (D-star) transmissions; OK in other regions
    147.570 (15 kHz spacing) Only used for simplex in the Colorado bandplan; in CA, this is a digital repeater output; does not fit other regions' 20 kHz spacing
    Russ - KI6MLU

  7. #7
    4x4 Ham Member AC0VH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Loveland, CO
    Posts
    558
    Lots of good information there, KI6MLU.

    Maybe should have mentioned additionally in the four I listed were just for CO and UT simplex overlapping because the club does a very large number of runs in the two states. Those were not necessarily for all 15KHz and 20KHz band plans as you note.

    What is generally true is since everyone uses 146.520 it ends up that the majority of simplex for 15KHz band plans line up as do 20KHz. So I usually end up programming both. For example I keep all the Utah 2m simplex because the Rising Sun does an event there every year and assigns trails their own simplex channel, so I need all of them anyway.

  8. #8
    4x4 Ham Member Supporting Member K9JBO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    113
    We could designate these channels to be meaningful like:
    AZAPRS - 144.390
    AZ4x01 - 146.480
    AZ4x02 - 146.540
    AZ4x03 - 147.480
    AZ4x04 - 147.500
    AZ4x05 - 147.520


    PLUS,
    We could program in the CA, UT and CO bandplans in similar fashion:
    CA4x01...
    UT4x01
    CO4x01
    etc.

    Kind of like the national frequency bandplan
    VTAC##
    VMEDS##
    etc.

  9. #9
    4x4 Ham Member Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Peoria, AZ
    Posts
    107
    I can't help but think you are trying to over engineer the problem. Let's not forget that we are frequency agile. We are not tied to specific programmed frequencies/channels like other radio services. Don't forget your radio has a VFO. If you really need a frequency stored in a memory slot, program this in the field. If you don't know how to manually program your radio, learn. Simplex usage seems to vary a lot by area and even club, instead of trying to create a one size fits all 4x4 band plan just be flexible. Just my dissenting opinion. - Tom

  10. #10
    4x4 Ham Member AC0VH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Loveland, CO
    Posts
    558
    For simplex that is exactly right, the VFO is there for a reason. The reason we as a club went through all this exercise is that there are a lot of people who have 2m mobiles and HTs as substitutes for their CBs but they are not otherwise particularly dedicated hams. I've mentioned before that I think the current push to replace CB radios in general use amongst OHV users is a double edged sword. Obviously FM, shorter whips, higher power, repeaters are all benefits but we're creating a whole bunch of appliance operators in the process. I honestly wish we would have pushed GMRS instead but we have what we do at this point I guess.

  11. #11
    4x4 Ham Member Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Peoria, AZ
    Posts
    107
    I see your point. Interesting.

  12. #12
    4x4 Ham Member AC0VH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Loveland, CO
    Posts
    558
    Yeah, I'm not defending the status quo. I wish everyone was 1/10th into ham as they are 4x4 trucks but I try to remain positive and helpful. Mainly if people are tuned up and have easy to operate programming then they cause less QRM to our fellow ham enthusiasts that could care less about old Jeeps and Toyotas.

  13. #13
    4x4 Ham Member HenryJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Oregon, USA
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by AC0VH View Post
    ... there are a lot of people who have 2m mobiles and HTs as substitutes for their CBs but they are not otherwise particularly dedicated hams...
    I might just fall into that category.
    I am a radio tech for my fire department and fulltime job. I probably know more than some. I do not practice programming frequencies on the fly, or manually. Just never had a need for it I guess. I don't ham enough to be called one, I suspect. I listen lots
    Could I learn to program frequencies manually? Sure, but why? I do keep the manuals with me if I NEED to do it. Right now I can not see a reason, nor have I had one in the last ten years.

    I guess I am more of the kind to plan ahead and have what I need in there before I leave

    Nice to see I might want to add one more frequency. Great discussion
    "Speed is just a matter of Money - How fast do YOU want to go?"-mechanic from Mad Max-
    If at first you don't succeed - Don't take up Skydiving!
    - KE7CSK

  14. #14
    4x4 Ham Member AC0VH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Loveland, CO
    Posts
    558
    Nah, you understand the connection between programmed channels and frequencies/offset/tone, so even if you don't do much spinning around with the VFO you understand how and could do it if pressed.

    Besides, there's no reason to do it manually all the time when they provide you 1,000 memory slots in a radio. Although it's about as hard to remember what your cryptic alpha tag meant...

  15. #15
    4x4 Ham Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    93
    In California we do indeed use a 15KHz spacing.

    Typical off road frequencies, and simplex in general:

    146.58
    146.55
    146.535
    146.49
    146.475

    Note that 146.565 in Cal is reserved for fox hunting and 146.46 is used for ATV coordination. 146.52 call frequency is often monitored (especially is you have something like Yaesu "Dual Watch") in keeping with the "Wilderness Protocol". All off-roaders should be familiar with the Wilderness Protocol, and monitor when wheeling, in my definitely not-humble opinion.

    You rarely see simplex activity on other frequencies or vhf/uhf bands. Also rarely there is activity on 29.560 FM.

    Dave, W6DPS

  16. #16
    Administrator Supporting Member K7VZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    3,130
    Good points on using Wilderness Protocol and Long Tone Zero. We've brought that up before. http://www.4x4ham.com/showthread.php...Long-Tone-Zero
    Virgil - K7VZ
    Offroad and on the air.

  17. #17
    4x4 Ham Member KD0ZDX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    13
    Lots of good information on here thanks folks!

  18. #18
    4x4 Ham Member Supporting Member WB9YZU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    92
    Agreed, interesting discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by AC0VH View Post
    For simplex that is exactly right, the VFO is there for a reason. The reason we as a club went through all this exercise is that there are a lot of people who have 2m mobiles and HTs as substitutes for their CBs but they are not otherwise particularly dedicated hams. I've mentioned before that I think the current push to replace CB radios in general use amongst OHV users is a double edged sword. Obviously FM, shorter whips, higher power, repeaters are all benefits but we're creating a whole bunch of appliance operators in the process. I honestly wish we would have pushed GMRS instead but we have what we do at this point I guess.
    Well, that is essentially my fear in a nutshell, that we are as Off-Road community are pushing people to "Replace" their CB with a 2M Rig. FRS/GMRS would have been a cheaper and logical alternative for what most use it for. Unfortunately, they don't make a FRS "mobile" rig and GMRS rigs are essentially commercial rigs that have been re-purposed. HTs seem to be the Truckstop/Walmart alternative.

    To the uneducated, or unwilling, this means simply going and buying a 2M rig and installing it in their vehicle, and free banding.
    Without our input into these discussions on other Jeep Forums, that is what we get, more Pirates.
    I had a strong discussion with one ham on a Jeep Forum who admitted to me that he sets a portable repeater in the woods, and loans out HTs to those who don't have licenses so they can join in on the trail chat. By his reckoning, if it caused no other Hams harm, why the fuss? Sometimes I wish I had saved that conversation.

    As far as the "Band Plan", perhaps a better setup would be to coordinate though the ARRL and get a single frequency monitored for "Off-Road" use. It could be the basis of an Article
    We already have a general 2M "national call frequencys", 146.52 (FM), 144.200 (SSB)... Edit: Ref LTZ link in this thread...

    Also consider that pursuant to FCC rules (which we all agreed to), none of us "Own a Frequency", so publishing club, State, and Regional band plans is interesting, it is also meaningless in the larger picture. Anyone, at anytime can use any of these frequencies for whatever they want as long as they have the Operating privileges to do so, and the frequency is currently not in use.

    I have no idea what this "Wilderness Protocol" is, perhaps someone would be so kind as to drop a link. Edit: Apparently that's what the LTZ article was about.
    Has this been published in QST?

    -Ron

  19. #19
    4x4 Ham Member AC0VH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Loveland, CO
    Posts
    558
    Wilderness protocol is something the ARES manual mentions that's informally leveraged for backcountry travel. I have to admit that I don't follow it strictly but do periodically announce myself on 2m when we reach camp and what-not.

    http://www.arrl.org/files/file/ARESF...rcesManual.pdf

    Wilderness Protocol

    The Wilderness protocol (see page 101, August 1995 QST) calls for hams in the wilderness to announce their presence on, and to monitor, the national calling frequencies for five minutes beginning at the top of the hour, every three hours from 7 AM to 7 PM while in the back country. A ham in a remote location may be able to relay emergency information through another wilderness ham who has better access to a repeater. National calling frequencies: 52.525, 146.52, 223.50, 446.00, 1294.50 MHz.
    2008 Toyota Tacoma - FTM-350, NMO2/70

  20. #20
    4x4 Ham Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Glendale, az
    Posts
    8
    I like to scan frequencies on vfo just to see what i can hear. I keep two of the cheep dual band ht radios in my go bag so I can monitor frs and murs. I used to keep an frs radio until it finally died on me a couple years ago. As soon as i get a new cb, i will install it along with my 2m/70cm rig.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •